The Dogman: American Pitbull Terrier vs Ovcharka?
There seems to be a misguided few who believe that the Russian Caucasian Ovcharka can compete with the APBT.
I ask you to give me your opinions and let's have a proper discussion/ debate.
Answers and Views:
Answer by RA
There is nothing on the planet (200 lbs. or under) that can whip a game American Pitbull Terrier (40-65lb). Anyone that suggests any dog or wolf has a chance is ill-informed.
Photo Credit: This Year's Love/Flickr CC
Answer by Hengus
Ovcharkas take it 9 times out of 10. 200 lbs Ovcharkas coat is too thick for a 60 lbs pit bull to hurt it, simple anatomy.
Pits are undoubtedly the king of fight breeds, that is POUND FOR POUND,
some of you deluded peasants think pits can take on polar bears already,
Answer by Julien
The Ovcharka hands down is the nastiest meanest most aggressive dog I have seen. They are not just big, but agile, and yes they will destroy any 50lb, 60lb,70lb ABPT. particularly if you can get one directly from Russia.
Answer by Paddy
TRUST ME, as you could google and see the other way around, i have seen a 65 lb pit grab a full-grown Bull Cow by the face and drag him down. You “get real” as you say idiot
Answer by SGT USMC
A Kangal – Ovcharka or the like could and would do whatever it pleases with a pitbull — could mount it and breed it – kill or mame it and in heartbeat. I suppose a pit bull could get lucky sneak under the big dog and attack his genitalia — more likely the big dog would scoop the apbt up in jaws shake it like a rat and it's over (see eg Dempsey terriers and barn rats) — — the toughest apbt are not these rejects you see at 100lbs — they are what 35 – 55 lbs — — Certainly APBT can be a real game and super talented — just like Floyd “money” Mayweather — Floyd is unmatched athletic talent and practioner — but the simple fact of the matter is that a bottom of the barrel heavyweight would make him his bitch with relative ease (including even the sloppy fat pasty white guys).
Similarly – and while there are exceptions they are very rare — a 125 lb female can be a 40-degree blackbelt — but at end of the day she can kung fu all over the place and I can walk right through wrap my arms around her and it's over (this example was for arguments sake only — I have never and never would find myself in a scrap with a little karate gal) — I'm not a brightest guy but has something to do with stuff like physics — despite the commentary APBT’s are not superheroes — the bite force is limited by forces likes size or lack thereof.
Answer by Don C
You want the truth, don't you? Well here goes. I’m 65 years old and fought dogs against the likes of Don Mayfield, Don Maloney, Walter Komosinski, Pete Sweeney, Earl Tudor, Jack Kelly, Jerry Bean, I could go on but what’s the point? I won my share and lost my share. IF there was a better combat dog than the pit bull, then that’s what the pros would be using. You’re talking about a 175 lb. dog against a 50 lb pit bull. The pit bull still wins. Why? Because the Russian dog WASN’T bred for combat. I’ve seen pit bulls up against everything available and they still win. Are there exceptions to every rule? Of course. When you match a 175 dog against a 50 lb pitbull, the odds are stacked against the smaller dog.B ut, pound for pound there is NO dog capable of whipping a pit bull. As a matter of fact, I will put a 50 lb. pit bull up against any 175 lb Russian dog in the world.
There’s an old saying that goes like this, “it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.” The American Pit Bull is the world’s greatest combat animal ever bred. If you think to place a 175 lb. Russian dog against a 50 lb. pit bull you have my deepest sympathies. When the pit bull grabs the big dog by the now and won’t let go, let’s see how much screaming goes on for the big dog. And make no mistake, the pit bull IS gonna at some time or another bite the bigger dog in a place he ain’t gonna care much for. And once again, if the “pros” who fight dogs felt like the Russian dog was the best combat dog, don’t you think they’d be using them instead of the lowly pit bull? ‘Nuff said.
Answer by Alexandra
I own a Pit bull and a Pit Bull x Boerboel (South African Mastiff, loosely translated from Afrikaans to mean Farmer’s dog) and they are the sweetest and most loyal dogs I’ve ever owned. They have never shown aggression or been a danger to other people or dogs in any situation. However, I once lived and worked on a property for a year that had an Ovchaka, I will never trust that breed again. The Ovchaka was threatening and aggressive to strangers and over the course of the year that I was there, got progressively more dangerous to the point that not only did he turn on me(savagely biting my arm after I pulled him off another person he tried to bite unprovoked) after biting me he was always threatening and aggressive towards me even though we had been ‘best friends’ up until then and now he has to be kept in an enclosure because he is even a danger to his own owner and her child.
In my personal experience and opinion, Pitbulls are predictable and trustworthy. They are only ruined and made dangerous by people, however, Ovcharka’s are unpredictable and aggressive regardless of how well they are trained and how much they are loved.
STOP DOG FIGHTING!
Answer by Rob
You guys are idiots for matching a 55 lb dog, the apbt, against fighting dogs/guard dogs 2 to 3 times its weight and size. Will this argument ever end? There is not a dog on this planet in a pitbulls weight class that can beat it. A Jack Russell terrier weighs probably 15 pounds less than a pit yet it can never beat one; nor can most dogs twice its size. In order for it to meets its match you have to give it all most impossible odds to win. Fucking cowards! Then brag about what a shitty breed it is.
Lesson one: dogo’s, presa’s, corso’s, bully kuttas are all bandogs. They only took on their recent appearance within the past 20-30 yrs. And what’s the main ingredient in most modern bandogs? Apbt!
- Which would win a Kangal or a pitbull in a dog fight?
- Tosa Inu Vs American Pit Bull Terrier fight?
- Who would win in a fight between a wolf and a pitbull?
Lesson 2: the kangals you see online that are the most impressive are not purebred dogs! That’s why they are so rare even in their country of origin. These so-called “Kangals” are in fact, Boz shepherds or Malak/Kangal crosses with those that look more like Malaks being the most popular. If a so-called kangal has a hanging upper lip, and block skull and not a round one, stands up square not rectangular, has overly defined muscle definition then its not a Kangal but one of the aforementioned.
Lesson 3: the best fighting dogs in the world are bandogs! Usually, Boerboel crossed with pit, or working lines of Neo or tosa. One such dog, a Boerboel X apbt, was undefeated against all other breeds and still to this day holds the record.
Lesson 4: game pitbulls come from a separate and distinct line from just the casual show dog (aka amstaffs). These dogs are top prizefighters who lines date back several generations back to when the breed was being developed. Of course, a 120 + lbs has the advantage but what more amazing here is that sometimes, the pit wins. Self-preservation, unlike what many of the larger breeds have, is not one of their traits; it was bred out. That ‘underdog’ — that fighting spirit is not something to be looked down upon.
Lesson 5: say we even the odds and made kangals, CO’s, CAO’s, bully kuttas, tm’s all equal in weight to a pit. Things wouldn’t be so “overrated” then would they?
Know better? Give your own answer to this question!
Aleksandar Todorovic says
You people newer seen any dog fight!I read here a lot of chid talks!Big dog Volkodav is fisical superior to any game pit in any weight!But big volkodav sometimes destroy a smaler pit,but if a pit is big and have a good defense volkodav wil run a way after couple minutes!Pit bull can not make any demage to volkodav!I have a game pit bulls and game croses betven game pit bulls and good american bulldogs!Crosss 37kg 600gr destroed any pit to 30kg!But if you ask me to put a cross to volkodav or put a pit bull to volkodav I choise a pit bull?Why you ask me if cross is stronger!Cross is tronger than pit but not is stronger then volkodav,pit is a smaller and good conditioning than cross!Volkodav heas easyer destroed bigger and stronger dog than smalerr fast dog!Thats it!
me says
I’ve been to many, many, many dog fights in africa and Europe and no one uses pit bulls in big money fights simply because they cannot compete with the Ovcharkas, The Alabais, Kangals and Presa Canarios. And no one has even tried since the late 90’s. I’ve seen small ovcharkas only about 125 pounds destroy a 65 pnd pit more than once and it’s not pretty I can’t imagine what a 180 pnd Ovcharka would do to them. Just so you know when the 2 dogs link up when they’re released the weight and size of the Ovcharka over power the pit and the Ovcharka knocks the pit to the ground and covers him and starts to crunch down on his tail and back legs forcing the put to turn up and try to bite the Ovcharkas neck and under chest and when he can’t from the furcand the pain he’s going through the Ovcharka lets go and turns around and grabs the pits face with his jaws and doesn’t let go and shakes and rips and crunches down till the pit slowly goes to the ground and The ovcharka holds that until the pit doesn’t have much left and eventually when he does let the pit go he then either grabs the pit by the top ot bottom of the neck (one fight he grabbed the top the other fight he grabbed the bottom of the neck) and at that point the fight was over and the pits cried till either the first fight the dog was near dead and the second fight the put was dead. So you couldn’t be more wrong in actual dog fighting facts. Pits are good to fight general dog breeds and each other butbwhen it comes to European and African fighting breeds they don’t even come close. Those are FACTS my friend.
MARINE DESTROYER says
ALL TALK….AFRICA AND EUROPE DON’T HAVE GAME PITS….THEY HAVE PIT MIXES PERIOD.
DOG FIGHTING ACTUALLY SUCKS. I’D LIKE TO PUT A MAN IN TO FIGHT A DOG BARE HANDED.
Ceecee Carew says
1st of all…to dog enthusiast. A Kangal has little to no recall and a 759psi bite force. He also has little to no recall once he us in full attack mode.(Kurdish Kangal) also a Apbt can’t do anything against the following dogs, Tosa Inu( who will nearly decapitate it. ) a fighting AKITA,which will literary peel the hide off him, a Central Asia Shepherd, a Dogo , a Cane Corso, on a deathwalk), not to mention a Caucasian bear dog and a African bred Rhodesian ridgeback. These dos are not fighting bulls but bears and big cats.. Please read on these dogs before subjecting a poor Apbt to something like a kangal or tosa who has a extra tough hide designed for protection against big cats.
Marine Destroyer says
Bottom line….I don’t care how big a dog is….Same with men, like the SGT. USMC wrote above, he things the bigger the tougher…WRONG asshole!!! Take the eyes and balls of both dogs and throw them in a bucket and you tell me who’s is whos!!! Just like every Navy Seal in the world would DESTROY any Marine!!! Nuff said, I’ve done it!
Navi says
Stupid Americans. Many videos on internet where top breed pitts gets destroyed in seconds but anyway you are still ignorant :).
Marine Destroyer says
You’re stupid you 3rd world country piece of shit!!! Stop shitting in a bucket and watch a video on what a bathroom is! Who cares what dog is tougher? Dog fighting is only a replacement of macho-ness because the dogs owners are really big pussies!!!
Grizz says
Personally I disagree with the notion that Pit bull could beat Caucasian Ovcharka that easily. Caucasian ovcharka has a bite force of 720 lbs per square inch pit only 235. Caucasian ovcharka is much bigger and stronger. Pit has better stamina but Caucasian has good stamina on its own. Pain Tolerance is good in pit bull. but Caucasian ovcharka has good pain threshold as well. Pit bull might be more game than Caucasian but Caucasian has practically no fear and very bad temper.
There are videos on youtube that show Presa Canario protection training. Presa is a powerful dog. And did very well in the training. but the man Presa was training with did not fall to the ground. Caucasian threw man on the ground instantaneously. When I say threw him to the ground I don’t mean push his whole weight against him any large dog can do that. I mean grab the man’s sleeve (one used in training ) throw the man on the ground by simple pull by the hand.
I doubt pit can do that. Yes, pit has great stamina and will to fight. But because of ovcharka’s power, he would spend most of the time on the ground losing strength. The longer the fight goes better for the pit but that is only if he isn’t pined to the ground for a long time. Ovcharka has good stamina too. And the fight would be over long before ovcharka would get tired. What pit brings to the fight beside its great gameness is speed and agility. But while pit has speed ovcharka has the power. And the best way to counter speed is with power. It would go same way as a large bear facing a tiger. If Caucasian forgets that pit is a fellow dog and sees him simply as an enemy. Same way ovcharka sees the wolf. He would kill the pit. Pit is very strong pound per pound but he simply does not have the necessary tools to beat ovcharka.
There are people that say pit can kill anything. There are even shows (not nature shows but movies) that say that pit bull bite force is much stronger than that of the leopard. I say that is why they call them movies. They are not real. Pit bull has very strong bite force pound per pound. But still not the strongest of all canines. The bite force of Caucasian divided by its weight is 3.6 pit is 3.9. Pound per pound pits jaw bite is slightly stronger. But cane corso bite force divided by his weight is 5.8 significantly stronger than pit’s. the bottom line is even if pit bulls bite force is slightly stronger pound per pound than Caucasian overall it is much weaker. You can see videos of kangal fighting the pit. Kangal wins relatively easily.
Now one can say that because both Kangal and Caucasian ovcharka are bigger than the pit the fight is unfair to the pit. But pits were bred chosen and refined almost exclusively for fighting. Other dogs were not. Following the same logic, one might say that this is not fair against other dogs. As far as pit vs wild animals. pit and Wolverine are in the same weight class. Many say that pit would kill wolverine in an instant. That is not and can’t be the truth. And no I never saw a fight between Wolverine and pit bull. However, Pit has gameness and stamina.
I don’t know about the stamina of wolverine but it is a very healthy determined and strong creature. Wolverine can hold his own against grizzly bear for a while or at least black bear. Of course angry enough bear will win but it tells you a lot about wolverine’s tenacity and strength pound per pound. Wolverine has slightly weaker bite force than the pit. wolverine 224 vs pit 235 but that does not matter that much Wolverine is just as game and tenacious as the pit perhaps even more so. Plus what sets wolverine apart from the pit bull are its large powerful claws. Why do most large wild cats capable of killing large dogs? Because of the claws. Technically largest Boerboel is almost the same weight as the largest leopard.
Leopard’s bite force is 500lbs per square inch. Boerboel’s is probably higher. And yes there were instances where Boerboel was able to chase leopard away. But if it came to confrontation to the death leopard would kill Boerboel easily even if Boerboel might actually have slightly more courage than the leopard. Leopard, however, is a survivor because it has to hunt every day and that keeps him in great form. Plus its great agility. plus the large claws. Now back to wolverine. Claws can do just as much damage as teeth and wolverines claws are huge. They can be used to hit from a distance and hold the adversary back delivering significant damage even before teeth come to play. Now weight wise fight between wolverine and pit is fair. infect large wolverine weights 40 lbs large pit 60 lbs. So pit actually has a weight advantage.
There are some information that wolverine was able to kill a polar bear but that is probably an exaggeration. But while wolverine being capable of killing polar bear is very doubtful in my mind. It is food for thought. Even if wolverine was able to deliver any significant damage to polar bear (The largest and strongest predator on earth) before moving away or be killed himself that already proves great tenacity of wolverine. of course wolverine that could withhold against polar bear even for couple of minutes would have to be exceptionally large specimen say 70-80 lbs. There are sometimes wolverines that size just like there are 80 lbs pits. But I doubt that 80 lbs pit could hold his own against polar bear for more than twenty seconds and deliver significant damage on his own.
As far as pit beating Caucasian it would have to be a poor example of Caucasian. Against good specimen of ovcharka it would not be an easily fight for the pit. Infect pit would have to be both very game and very lucky to win.
Steve says
People are really dumb. Georgian herders say even the small wolves there 35 kgs will kill the ovcharka when alone and quick. These dogs dont have a snowball’s chance in hell against a 180 lb male north american wolf. I have a 60 lb trained blue nose pit that is wicked but the shepherd dog to big and strong and has a thick coat of fur. Get real people stop believing the nonsense. And some are even saying they can take down a bear…hahahahah
Me says
You’re stuck on stupid, These dogs are breeded to fight and destroy wolves. 2 ovcharkas (2 males) have destroyed entire packs of wolves in certain russian areas. Educate yourself.
MARINE DESTROYER says
NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!! THE WOLVES BEING BEAT BY ANY DOG IS A 16 YEAR OLD HALF DEAD WOLF….FACT!!! OR POSSIBLY A 10 YEAR OLD 50LB. SICKLY WOLF.
Marine Destroyer says
It’s not the size that counts when a pit goes under and grabs it’s pray by the throat and then literally chokes it out as it crushes the windpipe….NOT a nice thing!!! Or rips the balls and penis off the other dog. Dog fighting is NOT a sport, it’s cruelty to animals. And I agree with you about a 180lb. North American Timber Wolf can dominate any dog 1 on 1…. They are extremely smart and not only use their strength but also have the knowledge of strategy.
I’ve studied Wolves for 35 years. They are survivors…
MARINE DESTROYER says
STOP BELIEVING THESE BITE FORCE REPORTS!!! DOGS VARY IN BITE FORCE. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE INTENSITY OF THE BITE!!! I HAD TAKEN A BITE FROM A HUGE MALE GERMAN SHEPHERD AT 146 LBS. WITH A 30 INCH NECK AND A HUGE HEAD….THAT WAS THE HARDEST ANY DOG EVER BIT ME AND I’VE TAKEN HITS FROM EVERY BREED MENTIONED HERE AN OTHERS AS WELL…I’M 260LBS AND FIT AND THIS DOG TOOK ME OFF MY FEET AND I LANDED 10 FEET AWAY FROM THE ORIGINAL SPOT I WAS STANDING… POWER (STRENGTH)+SPEED IS THE MOST DEVASTATING COMBINATION!!! I WAS IN AWE F THIS PARTICULAR DOG….HE WAS BADASS 100%…. HE WAS THE MOST IMPRESSIVE DOG I EVER HAD THE PLEASURE OF WORKING… THERE IS EXCEPTIONS TO ALL BREEDS….NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE, THAT’S HOW YOU GET HURT.
RA says
The comment has been moved into the body of the post.
SGT USMC says
DAVE IS WITHOUT QUESTION FULL OF SHIT — NO SUCH THING AS 100LB PITBULL LET ALONE GAME BRED — A BIG ONE IS MAYBE HALF THAT SIZE — IM THINKING DAVE IS EITHER THAT DUMB OR SO SMARTAND GETTING OFF WORKING US UP ON HIS PURE IDIOCY