Q: Kangal vs Central Asian Ovcharka vs Caucasian Ovcharka?
I want a strong dog that can defend itself and have lots of courage. I live up north in a big 2 acre home. I need protection from animals and robbers.
Which of these dogs is biggest or strongest? What is their bite force?
Answers and Views:
Answer by Alley Taylor
Kangal
Answer by Ahm
No man the Caucasian shepherd is much more aggressive than Kangal. The Kangal prefer to scare away other dogs. Kangal is not the dog that wants to fight.
Answer by Brian Burdick
Caucasian shepherds are truly wonderful dogs. Not for the new dog owner. They are definitely not cute teddy bears. As far as aggression goes, they are at the top of the field with such breeds as the Central Asian Shepherd and the Bully Kutta of Pakistan. All are wonderful dogs but they need a very firm hand dealing with them.
I too wanted to get Caucasian Shepherd (Ovcharka) but decided not to because I live in sunny S. Florida, and the heat here would be so very hard on the animal.
Also, I will always LOVE the Caucasian Shepherd but I'm too old to handle it. At 76, I think that Ovcharka would have been too much for me no matter how well he was trained.
I then thought of an Asian Shepard but after talking to a Russian breeder of them decided against it too. As Dirt Harry so wisely said, ”A man’s got to know his limitations!”.
I opted instead for a Turkish Sivas Kangal. Best thing I ever did. He’s only 135 lbs, but strong as can be. Pulls like a truck when he wants to. My Koco (I also call him Mr. Fluffy) is a mellow, easy-going, well-behaved guy. Loving and obedient and even-tempered as long as he’s not being aroused. When he is, he goes into the “Turkish Lion” mode they are famous for.
The Lord works in strange ways. Koco turned out to be the most perfect dog I could have ever wanted. No offense to any other breed ( I LOVE them ALL!) but for me, he turned out Perfect!
In addition:
Remember, big dogs eat a lot, cost more to feed, and vet bills are a lot higher. I will say that there is nothing like a 126-pound lap dog! LOL
Remember also, ” NEVER trust someone who says they don’t like dogs, but ALWAYS TRUST your dog when he DON’T LIKE someone!”
Answer by cissy
I had a Caucasian Ovcharka (now deceased) and currently have a Kangal (Anatolian Shepherd). If you decide on a flock guardian breed like a Caucasian Ovcharka or a Kangal or any other, then you absolutely need to install fencing – preferably livestock grade – or your dog will wander, acquire territory that may belong to a neighbor, crossroads, and get killed, get picked up by animal control, get shot, etc. It is your responsibility to properly contain your dog.
These guys are fabulous property guardians, but on territory (which they decide if not fenced), they can be problematic. You can socialize them with strangers and other dogs, but that would defeat the purpose for which you want them. They are also barkers; they're defensive guardians and they're ferocious, incredibly loud bark and charge are their first lines of defense.
IMO, fencing is an absolute must and you need to do a lot of research before you get any of these breeds. And locate a responsible breeder. If you go for cheap, you can end up with lots of health problems.
Answer by Tim
We know a few things as FACTS. Kangals are regularly used to guard flocks and herds from coyotes and wolves both in Turkey and even now here in the USA and Canada which the North American is the home of the largest breed of wolves the subset of the grey wolf the timber wolf. Those are not the scientific names but we will leave it there for ease of id naming.
We know from hundreds of interviews with herdsmen and shepherds in all these areas that one on one a large Kangal can kill a wolf and a yote the latter very easily. But if the Kangal is outnumbered especially by a wolf they will be run off or killed. When you start getting into larger numbers it becomes different and harder to predict as its situational. Normally if you have 4 or more Kangals together they will always run off wolf packs as rarely will a pack stay and try to fight another with numbers. They are there to eat not to fight. Kangals are there to protect not to fight.
CAUCASIAN has been bred for the last close to a hundred years to be much more aggressive. This has nothing to do with physical abilities and has been more geared toward human aggression than the animal. This his is from the old USSR using them as military attack and control dogs. Sentry dogs. Thus they were also bred to be more command-driven than instinct-driven. Again as this works much better for human guard work.
They want a dog that will attack on command not just when it thinks it's the thing to do but regardless of what it thinks. In that time it lost much of its cardio and long-distance ability. It because blockier and more heavily massed. While this is great for human opponents it’s a negative in one meant for wilderness or farm work. They also are very environment-specific because of their coat.
Unlike the Kangal which regularly in Turkey deals with 100F/37.8C in the summer as well as -20F/-28C winters, a Caucasian can take the extreme cold but anything more than moderate heat would have it suffering badly meaning there is no way it could run off a wolf in temps even in the 80s F /26.7-27C without possibly suffering heatstroke.
The only way to truly compare the breed's physical stature and makeup are to shave them both so you can see the size and structure etc While this would reduce a small amount of mass of a Kangal it would reduce a Caucasian mass by 40%. It’s still a powerful dog and its weight shows this clearly but it's nowhere near the mass it appears to be with 8″ long hair fur.
When you really look at their structure and build you can clearly see the Caucasian is shorter in length and lower-slung. Its legs are thick-boned but shorter. Compare that to a Kangal which has a longer leaner body but is still heavily muscled with longer legs not quite as massive. What you have is a powerlifter in a long thick heavy fur coat vs a performance athlete in a dense short fur coat. Human sprinters are actually quite heavily muscled but not like a bodybuilder or powerlifter. That is actually a good comparison of the two breeds in terms of their builds.
Because of these differences, the Kangal is a MUCH faster runner with numerous observed tests it achieving over 40mph/64kph when it’s running at a full gate. A number of videos on youtube of this from breeders with the dogs running alongside their car on the road. These dogs are stupid fast in the wide open. Caucasian is not. They are not speed demons. But that does not make them clumsy or slow. They just were are no longer bred for the wilds. They are great for a farmyard or smaller area where you are dealing with yards ad meters vs miles/kilometers.
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As far as bite power goes it’s really a non-issue. All of these Mossoler breeds have all the power in their bite to crush bone and rip flesh. My past Presa Canario which was a 115lb female imported into the US where there was only 1 breed here bite thru a steel-belted car tire in a few minutes. She bit a cow femur bone in half and actually bit so hard on one she broke one of her front canines. These dogs' canine teeth are very thick based and I can not imagine the biting force it took. But in her protection work, they would only use full hard bit sleeves and as with the softer sleeve, she crushed the trainer’s forearm so badly he had to go to ER and ended up with nerve damage.
My point is all these dogs with thick heads and not long jaws have tremendous bite force. You can gauge relative bite force by head size but specifically the diameter around the jaw base. If you open the mouth and measure around the inside of the mouth around the back of the head. Thus the royal mastiff has likely the strongest bite but it also is a big doormat with no endurance a short life span much of it at reduced health. It’s not athletic.
What we want is a large dog that has the mass to deal with wolves/predators or large people but keeps all its athleticism and has a coat that is conducive for the environment it will live in. Basically, it comes down to having the right tool for the job. You want something that is powerful but is small and you can take it anywhere with you where it could sit on your lap yet still protect you. That is your American Pit Bull. You want a farm dog that can protect your livestock around the farmyard as well as the close paddocks/pastures. and you live in an area with mild summers and cold winters and you also want a dog that will protect the farm and family from humans and you can command it too. You also do not have company much where the dog has to mingle with people and children it does not know. Then the Caucasian is about s perfect a dog you can get.
You want a farm and field dog that can work on its own but still is very good around humans. Is able to work out in the wilds and can take very hot summers and very cold winters. A dog that is more accepting but maybe aloof of visitors and children you allow on your property. But is still trainable and a bit more laid back unless there is a threat or danger. The Kangal is the ideal dog. I might also mention that Kangals if given proper vet care and diet such as how a dog would live that’s not with a flock or heard 100% of the time they have very long life spans for such large dogs. They can regularly live 12-15 yr. Despite you is written in books that the authors did not bother to do actual real research most of these larger dogs are 10 yr and they are about done. As a working dog 8-10. A home dog that has an easy life but good exercise 9-11. But Kangals seems to have been bred with a longer useful life in mind which sort of makes sense. The Japanese are also very good at this.
So to wrap up Kangals are longer taller dogs. Caucasians are the same general weight class but in a short lower structure. Kangals are more athletic where Caucasians are more aggressive in nature. In terms of functional strength, they are about even.
BTW how a dog aggressiveness in general really is from breeds like these has more to do with how they are raised and what is expected of them from their owners IF IF IF the owner knows how to properly train them.
The biggest thing going against the Caucasian is its hair which is a huge maintenance issue both on the dog as well as all over EVERYTHING. Also teaching it to control and where and when to focus its aggression. You hear it all the time but in this case, it’s true. You really need to know how to train a dog like this and have to always hold dominance over it. One outburst from this dog on a friend visiting or a passerby as you are walking it if you do not live in the country and you could end up losing not only your dog but much of what you own when they sue you. It’s seriously so you really need to check your ego about wanting to own a badass dog just because it’s aggressive. Either of these dogs easily matches the aggression of any of the guard breed dogs and they all have plenty to do world-class guard attack and sentry duty for some of the best militates and private security firms.
Also, do not buy into this stuff you hear from Harding Dog Group people that these dogs because they are meant to work alone it goes against their nature to take commands and work from commands. Like you should not train them. That is an old tale that just got spread thru these people from long ago but it was never tested. It was just passed down and down thru time and it’s proven wrong over and over. They use to think you took a dog to protect a herd as a puppy and threw it in with the flock or herd and that was it. You did not train it or socialize it, nothing. As these dogs were not meant for that bla bla bla. ITs BS. ALL dogs are pack animals and all live by rules and training. Dogs by their very nature, if they see you as the alpha (as they should or you will be in trouble), want to follow your direction it's how a pack works. Duh. These ranchers really should stick to understanding their cattle and sheep rather than act like they know dogs when all they have for experience is throwing them out to a herd and nothing more. What is easy and cheap. That’s why they do it. They do not want to take the time to train them Plan and simple.
The point is all these dogs are highly trainable and can be taught all the same obedience and protection training. Hell, you can train a chihuahua to attack and bite and release on command. That does not make it the ideal dog for it but it shows that even a pathetic worthless lapdog can be taught to do things like that. You must start as a puppy and you need to spend lots of time with it. Not training time but just being with as much as possible. This creates a greater bond and it learns more cues from you that way even if you are not formally training it at that time. Much like a kid learns from its mom and dad just being with them and observing and helping.
You can have a Kangal that will sit-stay come and even go on command. As well as walk and run completely off lead right next to you. If can be taught to bite bark release chase stop chasing all on command as well. You can teach it where to bite and how to attack etc as well. It just takes time and skill and knowledge.
Answer by anatolianrescue
Both dogs are hard to find in the US. Which breed is best suited to you will depend on you, your family, your fencing, what other animals you have, how close your neighbors are, and how much experience you have with large stubborn dogs.
All of the flock guardian dogs bark, especially at night. If they stay outside at night, you can be sure they will be barking. That is how they keep predators away. Close neighbors do not always appreciate that though.
If you have other dogs, most flock guardian dogs do best with a dog of the opposite gender and may not get along with a dog of the same gender.
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All flock guardians are nomadic by nature and will want to wander and expand their territory so it is important to have secure fencing.
All of them are fairly stubborn and independent. The Pyrenees is probably the softest temperament but is still a stubborn and independent thinker. They do have a heavy, long coat, though and grooming can be a chore.
All of them have the natural instinct to protect what they feel is theirs. Some of them are easier to live with though.
Whichever breed you choose, Caucasian shepherd or Kangal, make sure you do as much research as possible. Talk to other owners, contact the breed-specific rescue group if there is one. They will not sugarcoat the dog to "make a sale".
Answer by Nick
Alabai is the strongest and I saw many fights between these dogs,
Alabai wins against Kangals most of the time.
Answer by Ryan edwards
I own a Russian import Central Asian Ovcharka he 14 months at 30 inches h never seen aggression like it.
Answer by Arthur
As I understand, Kangal and Central Asian Ovcharka are almost the same. The Central Asian Shepherd dog breed consists of numerous types and lines like Alabai in Turkmenistan or Kangal in Turkey.
Caucasian and Central Asian (Alabai, Kangal, etc.) Ovcharkas are approximately the same size and weight but Caucasian shepherd dogs are much more savage and have longer hair which protects them in fights with wolves.
Answer by Andrew
At Arthur, I am sorry I don't think you know what you are talking about. First and foremost a CAO has shorter hair than the average Kangal, It is a Caucasian Ovcharka that you are thinking of.
Second, a Caucasian Ovcharka, Central Asian Ovcharka, and Kangal can all get to the same extremely large size although it is more common to have an Ovcharka way more than the average Kangal, Kangals on the large size average more than a large Ovcharka.
Third, if you knew anything about these dogs besides what you read on Wikipedia or any other place such as you owned one (I do) or had friends that own them (I do) you would realize that quite literally a CAO and Kangal are the same thing, a CAO is just more stocky and does not have the same leg power of a Kangal (although it make up for that in its body strength. As for aggressiveness Turkish Kangals, not AKC Kangals are just as aggressive as CAO'. Either way, it is an even match if both dogs are around the same size and age.
Answer by Bob-d
Between Kangal vs Caucasian Ovcharka vs Central Asian Ovcharka, I would choose Kangal.
The Kangal is a breed of livestock guardian dog, originating from the Kangal district in Turkey. This dog is calm, controlled, independent, powerful and protective. They make good guardians of livestock and humans alike, and they may not be suitable for inexperienced dog owners.
A working Kangal on duty will station itself on a high vantage point overlooking its flock. When suspicious, a Kangal will stand with its tail and ears erect and give an alarm call. When faced with a wolf, the Kangal sometimes is successful in intimidating the enemy, but it will resort to a physical confrontation if the predator stands its ground.
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